Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth.
Today, we're talking to a true serial entrepreneur who was fired by his father, started an agency in the middle of a recession, and grew it into a three-time Inc. 500 company.
I'm joined by Jon Tsourakis, President and Chief Revenue Officer at Ayova, to get his unconventional playbook for the agency world.
Today, we're talking to a true serial entrepreneur who was fired by his father, started an agency in the middle of a recession, and grew it into a three-time Inc. 500 company.
I'm joined by Jon Tsourakis, President and Chief Revenue Officer at Ayova, to get his unconventional playbook for the agency world.
Jon is a seasoned strategist who has built, scaled, and sold multiple businesses. What makes his story stand out is his ability to organize chaos and simplify the complex, a skill forged in the fires of economic downturns and high-stakes business environments.
From navigating the brutal realities of the agency world, Jon's journey is a masterclass in resilience and straight-talking leadership. He cuts through the noise to deliver practical, battle-tested advice for agency owners who are tired of the same old playbook.
We get into the terrifying state of the agency market, why most agencies are set to fail, the uncomfortable truths about success, and Jon's no-nonsense approach to sales, mergers, and building a team of "solutionists."
Jon Tsourakis
Jon is a serial entrepreneur, seasoned leader and strategist.
As a sales and marketing expert, he's constantly studying brand identity, business communications, buyer behavior, sales conversions, marketing systems, product/service design and all things digital.
As a sales and marketing expert, he's constantly studying brand identity, business communications, buyer behavior, sales conversions, marketing systems, product/service design and all things digital.
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Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode:
1. The State of the Agency World: A Terrifying Convergence
Jon pulls no punches when describing the current landscape for marketing agencies. He makes it clear that for many, the situation is dire.
"Most of the agencies are terrified. Smaller agencies are growing in some capacities, or the hyper-niched agencies, they seem to be doing well... But you're right, AI... We just talked to a company that... their marketing department is one guy in ChatGPT. They don't have another agency, and they're just literally just, like… granted, it's slop, it doesn't look good, but it's working for them."
He points to a perfect storm of converging threats: clients replacing agencies with AI, a flood of freelancers from large agency layoffs, and companies getting wise to overseas labor arbitrage. The result is a brutal, hyper-competitive market where the old models are breaking down.
His prediction is stark:
"It's as tough as it's ever been. I predict that, I would say, at a minimum, 20% of the agencies that are in business today won't be in business 4 years from now. There's too many agencies as it is, man."
For agency owners, the message is clear: the comfortable ride is over. It's time to adapt or get left behind.
2. The Uncomfortable Truth: Get Off Your Ass and Do Something
When asked for advice for agency owners hitting a wall, Jon's response is direct and unapologetic: get back to basics and do the hard work.
"Pick up the phone and do some cold calls, like, legitimately. Have something to really offer in value, that somebody's not only willing to get on the phone with you, but to carry on that conversation. And it's the name of the game. Whoever competes the hardest is going to win. Hardest and smartest, those are the people that are gonna win. Everybody else is gonna fall into that 20%."
He challenges the prevailing reliance on automated outreach, arguing that when everyone is zigging, you need to zag. He also calls out the complacency that set in during the last decade of economic boom, a period that created a generation of "zombie businesses."
"We had it good for so long. We had such a raging economy, and everybody that got in business between, like, 2010 to 2020... And then in 2020, we have COVID that hits... and then we print all this money. And then we create all these zombie businesses... and then now we're all moaning and complaining... This is all stuff that we saw coming, and we thought we were the exception, and now we gotta realize that we're not the exception, and you gotta pick up the phone, and you gotta call some people."
His message is a harsh but necessary reality check: if you're unwilling to do the uncomfortable work required to compete, you should seriously consider if you're in the right business.
3. The "Solutionist" Mindset: Stop Pointing Out Problems
Jon shares the internal philosophy that drives his agency's success: being a "solutionist." This mindset was born from a simple observation.
"When there's going to be something that's strong externally, it better be strong internally. And the genesis of it was internal. We had some people that all they were doing... they kept just pointing out problems and problems and problems, and we realized, like, okay, well, we're in the business of providing solutions. So when a client comes to us, we don't just point out another problem. Right? We find a solution for that problem."
This philosophy transformed their internal culture and became their core value proposition. Instead of just identifying issues, the team is empowered to roll up their sleeves and find answers. This not only leads to happier clients but also creates a healthier, more proactive company culture.
It's a direct counter to the all-too-common agency approach of getting bogged down in frameworks and processes while failing to deliver what the client actually needs: a solution to their problem.
Visit Jon's website here:
4. The Merger Playbook: A Strategy for Growth, Not a Magic Bullet
Having successfully merged his agency to form Ayova, Jon offers a pragmatic view on mergers as a growth strategy.
"You should absolutely look at some form of a merger, or a purchase situation... The problem I'm seeing now, in looking to even acquire other agencies, is they're looking at valuations from, like, 10 years ago... some of them have one client that's 90% of their revenue, and they think they're gonna get a 6X multiple on their EBITDA. It's like, are you out of your mind?"
He also debunks a common myth about mergers: the idea that every client from one side will automatically become a client of the other.
"Where I was wrong, though... was I thought that every marketing client would become a tech client, and every tech client would become a marketing client. That is so wrong. So if anybody's thinking about a merger, like, that's not gonna happen."
Despite the challenges, he still sees mergers as a viable path for growth, especially for agencies struggling to scale. The key is to be realistic about valuations and to understand that integration is a process that requires navigating friction and removing obstacles.
5. The Future of Agencies: Deep Specialization and Coaching
Looking ahead, Jon predicts a future where agencies must evolve beyond simple service delivery to survive.
"I think that's going to come down to almost like a coaching mechanism. Pushing companies to do what they don't believe they could do, right? Doing what they're unwilling to do. And why is that a reality? That is because they can take the blame for it... so that will always exist, but I think insofar as, like, the service delivery, AI is going to keep chewing at that, and that's going to go away."
As AI commoditizes the "how" of marketing execution, the most valuable agencies will be those that can provide the strategic "why" and push their clients toward uncomfortable but necessary growth.
He also emphasizes the undeniable trend toward deep specialization.
"I think agencies are going to continually to deeply specialize. I just spoke with a dentist the other day, and they are so stoked that they have an agency that only does dental... to them, it's so special. So, to me, there's that value perception. That is something that's okay, alright, like, that's not going anywhere. Keep going down that line."
Generalist agencies following the same old playbook are on a path to extinction. The future belongs to those who can carve out a defensible niche and deliver undeniable value.
Final Thoughts:
Jon's story is a powerful reminder that there are no shortcuts to success. Forged in the crucible of a recession, his playbook is built on a foundation of hard work, uncomfortable truths, and a relentless focus on solving problems.His advice for agency owners is simple but not easy: stop looking for a magic bullet, be honest with yourself, and do the work that others are unwilling to do.
Whether it's picking up the phone to make a cold call or having the courage to merge with a competitor, survival and growth in today's market demand a level of grit and resilience that can't be automated.
As Jon makes clear, the agencies that thrive will be the ones that stop being order-takers and start being indispensable partners—the solutionists who can navigate chaos, push their clients to be better, and deliver real, measurable results.
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A little about me, the host the show. Please connect with me on LinkedIn I'd love to have you as part of our professional network
Mike Midgley runs a portfolio career, a dynamic hands on digital entrepreneur, founder of the Scrubbing Squad, NXD, strategist, public speaker, Winning by Design certified Revenue Architect and Host at The Force & Friction Podcast.
Mike has achieved multiple exits over a 30+ year career, raised Venture Capital and franchised his businesses 68 times.
