Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and especially SaaS growth. Today, we're diving into how to build demand gen that actually drives revenue with Irina Jordan.
Irina is Head of Demand Gen at Chowly, a leading restaurant growth platform trusted by over 17,000 restaurants nationwide. But what makes Irina fascinating isn't just her role, it's her revolutionary approach to demand gen that has the entire marketing community talking.
We explore why she publicly declares that MQLs are "lazy," how she's pioneered variable compensation tied to SQLs, and why reporting to a Chief Revenue Officer as one unified revenue team transforms everything about demand generation strategy and execution.
Irina Jordan
Irina is a revenue-focused marketing leader who has built her career on a contrarian approach to demand generation. As Head of Demand Generation at Chowly, she drives business growth for over 17,000 restaurants by developing strategies that create measurable revenue impact, not just lead volume.
Her unique background, from USSR immigrant to senior marketing executive, has shaped her perspective on what really matters in business: results that show up on the bottom line.
Watch the Episode:
Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode:
1: The MQL Death Sentence: Why Marketing's Favorite Metric is "Lazy"
Irina opens with a bold declaration that challenges the foundation of most marketing organizations, MQLs are fundamentally flawed and counterproductive.
"MQLs are lazy, and anytime I hear... again, I'm in very, in quite a few marketing communities for C-level executives, the main gripe is sales does not get marketing. Sales is all about the money. You can be as cute as you can be, and as awesome you can be with your lovely collateral, and your lovely booth. Did you make the money? Did they meet the quarter? Did they book enough demos? Is their sales cycle improving? And if you're not getting any positive answers to any of them. MQLs are useless."
Her perspective cuts through marketing vanity metrics to focus on what actually matters to revenue teams. Instead of celebrating email clicks and form fills, she demands accountability to metrics that directly impact the business: SQLs, revenue influence, and customer lifetime value.
2: Variable Comp Revolution: Putting Your Money Where Your Metrics Are
Irina has pioneered an approach that most marketers would find terrifying—tying her personal compensation to SQL delivery, with sales teams determining what qualifies as an SQL.
"My ultimate metric is SQLs. And when people think about SQLs, in my case, I'm not the one that decides what an SQL is. The revenue TL team and my sales guys decide what an SQL is. So, ultimately, they are my arbitrage. So, in my case, I have a base salary, and I also have a variable component. My variable component is for me to meet my monthly target that sets out for me in the beginning of the year."
This creates unprecedented alignment between marketing and sales, eliminating the traditional finger-pointing and blame games. When your compensation depends on delivering qualified opportunities that sales actually wants to work, every campaign decision becomes laser-focused on revenue impact rather than vanity metrics.
3. The Revenue Team Unification: Breaking Down Silos Through Structure
Irina's most powerful insight involves organizational design, she reports directly to the Chief Revenue Officer alongside sales and customer success, creating a true revenue team rather than separate departments.
"I report to the chief revenue officer. He is a sales guy by training, and I love it. So for me, it's all about how do what I do augments and helps the revenue team as a whole. And for me, that is the ultimate nosta... we're all on the same team, reporting to the same person. And that's where the bow tie comes into place."
This structure eliminates the traditional marketing-sales divide by creating shared accountability, shared metrics, and shared success. When everyone reports to the same leader and works toward the same goals, collaboration becomes natural rather than forced.
4. Bowtie Mastery: Demand Gen Across the Complete Customer Journey
Irina demonstrates sophisticated understanding of the bowtie methodology, recognizing that demand generation must consider both acquisition and retention to be truly effective.
"Making sure we really cultivate our customer base, because I don't want to run dry and keep feeding the net new if we're having leaking. If our churn is really exceeding the number that is acceptable, and we have to work harder on the left side of the bow tie... even though my ultimate metric are the SQLs, we are very, very tight and collaborative with the customer success."
Her approach involves constant dialogue with customer success, regular analysis of customer health metrics, and using retention data to refine acquisition strategies. This prevents the common trap of optimizing for volume while ignoring quality and long-term customer value.
5. AI-Era Adaptation: Fundamentals Over Panic in the GEO Revolution
When discussing the challenges of declining organic traffic and rising acquisition costs in the AI era, Irina provides a refreshingly grounded perspective on adaptation versus panic.
"So what? Like, you should be comfortable with staying on top of things without freaking out, and that's where your industry expertise and nuance and contextual kind of reasoning comes into play. Because you can stay ahead of the geo, you can stay ahead of paid ads, because you can optimize against somebody who's still lagging behind... Google still favors the people who respect the rules."
Her philosophy emphasizes mastering fundamentals while thoughtfully incorporating new technologies, rather than chasing every new trend or panicking about algorithm changes. She advocates for disciplined execution of proven strategies while staying informed about emerging opportunities.
Final Thoughts:
Irina leaves us with a powerful reminder about the importance of holistic thinking in demand generation strategy."You can't ignore pieces of the hole. You can't say, let's cut off the arm, so we keep the legs... You want to be found in the buyer's journey from the beginning to the end. Buyers sometimes don't know what questions to ask, or what information to look... you really have to be at all the touch points for people at different stages of their decision-making."Her final insight emphasizes that successful demand generation requires understanding your actual customers rather than making assumptions based on industry trends or sophisticated marketing theories.The anti-MQL revolution isn't about rejecting measurement, it's about measuring what actually matters.
As Irina demonstrates, when you align compensation with revenue outcomes, structure teams around shared goals, and focus on the complete customer journey rather than isolated metrics, demand generation transforms from a cost center into a true revenue driver. In an AI-driven world where traditional tactics are evolving rapidly, this foundation of alignment and accountability becomes even more critical for sustainable growth.
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A little about me, the host the show. Please connect with me on LinkedIn I'd love to have you as part of our professional network
Mike Midgley runs a portfolio career, a dynamic hands on digital entrepreneur, founder of the Scrubbing Squad, NXD, strategist, public speaker, Winning by Design certified Revenue Architect and Host at The Force & Friction Podcast.
Mike has achieved multiple exits over a 30+ year career, raised Venture Capital and franchised his businesses 68 times.
